Health disclosure

[rapa lucida]

Long time no post and all that....!

i'm applying for a few jobs at the moment and some employers,
particularly in the public sector (best source of good jobs around
here if one can get in) require a health declaration form to be
completed at the interview stage.

I haven't needed to fill one in before, having mainly done short-term
work, usually with agencies. So I'm wondering how much detail needs to
go on it.

I've never declared myself as having a 'disabiility'; I don't really
feel a need to use this label in employment and don't really have
problems in employment (I just make sure I choose the right jobs). As
I understand it a disabled person has the right not to declare a
disability under DDA. However, a health form (for employment and
possibly pension purposes) is a bit different. So the question is...
is AS/ASD a 'health' problem as such, which should be declared on a
'health' form...?

[Legal Alien]

Post by rapa lucida
So the question is...
is AS/ASD a 'health' problem as such, which should be declared on a
'health' form...?

Nope it isn’t a problem an don’t be to honest at the interview(er) either !
Hows life in Swansea ?

Best Regards , Legal

[rapa lucida]

On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 17:44:06 +0100, Legal Alien

Post by rapa lucida
So the question is...
is AS/ASD a 'health' problem as such, which should be declared on a
'health' form...?

Nope it isn’t a problem an don’t be to honest at the interview(er) either !
Hows life in Swansea ?

I don't plan to note it on an application form or in the interview.
I've always declined guaranteed interviews. Most decent jobs require
some aspect of working under pressure and customer service, which
could be seen as not fitting with autism, but I have found ways to
survive in jobs involving these (if not necessary in personal life!)
and would rather they discriminate on the basis of my work record than
on some perception of how a condition will affect me.

Application forms and interviews are one thing, and there is certainly
no need to disclose there, but a health form is another matter... as I
understand it they can't use them for the selection process, but they
can make it a condition of employment that correct and satisfactory
information be provided. Personally I don't consider AS a health
problem, but would an employer.....?

I suppose disclosure could help if in future a problem arises (e.g.
bullying or stress)... but I'm not entirely comfortable with it. (Does
it have any actuarial impact, i.e. could disclosure possible be
necessary for a pension or health insurance questionnaire...? I
shouldn't think so, unless it's seen in a factor for things like early
retirement due to stress...?)

[Legal Alien]

Post by rapa lucida
but they
can make it a condition of employment that correct and satisfactory
information be provided. Personally I don't consider AS a health
problem, but would an employer.....?

And here comes the white lie into play ,....NT`s understand this part
perfectly ;-) do not voluntary disclose your condition at your employer
unless your forced by circumstance

Post by rapa lucida
but I'm not entirely comfortable with it. Does
it have any actuarial impact, i.e. could disclosure possible be
necessary for a pension or health insurance questionnaire...?

Mental health problems could be on the questionnaire , I don’t think
there should be any specific questions about ASD because of the wide
spectrum , you’re an Asperger right ?

Give it some thought and at the end don`t voluntary give information
which could harm your application

Good luck , Legal

[rapa lucida]

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 00:25:34 +0100, Legal Alien

Post by rapa lucida
but I'm not entirely comfortable with it. Does
it have any actuarial impact, i.e. could disclosure possible be
necessary for a pension or health insurance questionnaire...?

Mental health problems could be on the questionnaire , I don’t think
there should be any specific questions about ASD because of the wide
spectrum , you’re an Asperger right ?

From what I've seen of health forms in the past, and samples on the
web, it's just a set of general health questions. There are 'any
mental health conditions' type questions usually, but I don't really
consider it a mental health issue really. I think I can get away with
thinking that, because it's not generally considered to be mental
health.

But there may be an 'any underlying conditions' box or 'anything else'
which one could say is designed to trap anything the applicant has
tried to hide by claiming it doesn't fit the questions.

I think the 'any ongoing/underlying' type question could be 'no' on
the basis that I'm not receiving any sort of ongoing treatment for it
- I was diagnosed some years ago and haven't asked the dr to make use
of the dx in any way in the last 5+ years.

And I can still perhaps play the 'not a medical condition' card. But
perhaps the fact that I had to ask a dr to obtain the dx in the first
place means it is a medical issue in the eyes of an employer.

The other thing is do I declare stress/anxiety in the relevant box?
I've never been formally diagnosed with anxiety, but I did once ask a
dr about counselling for stress/anxiety when I was a student, and
although it wasn't treated in a formal way, because the dr referred
me, the counsellor had to feed back to the dr, so it could be on my
record. And if I note that then they might do some digging, and it was
from that counsellign that I sought dx.

Give it some thought and at the end don`t voluntary give information
which could harm your application

The only place where the quesitons would come close to requiring the
information (having said no to the voluntary disability questions) is
the health form. This is not read as part of the application process -
it's only presented at the interview - but in theory occupational
health could say it is incompatible with the job. I doubt it, but it's
a small risk. And just them knowing it and being 'aware' of it when
making promotion or downsizing decisions in the future makes me a bit
wary.

This 'disclose or not' issue is more stressful than the idea of
interviews etc. I don't want to jeopardise a long term job opportunity
with a good employer on the basis of a simple decision in filling in a
form. But equally I want to be careful about what I say.

With previous jobs - agency or small companies - I've just had to say
I choose not to declare a disability (i.e. don't have a disabaility or
don't want special treatment) and have no ongoing medical issues (more
for record should they need to send me to hospital than for employment
records) so it's never come up before.


They might not even find out, of course. I suspect they would only
approach my dr if they felt they needed to check something. So as long
as there's nothing serious enough in my history for them to check, it
would never matter. Unless an issue arose in future that made me feel
it necessary to use autism to support my case. But if they do check
anything out, the dr might write a full report on everything. Then
again, they might not think it necessary to include autism.

That turned into a long message. Perhaps making mountains out of mole
hills.

[Bob Badour]

Post by rapa lucida
On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 00:25:34 +0100, Legal Alien

Post by Legal Alien

Post by rapa lucida
but I'm not entirely comfortable with it. Does
it have any actuarial impact, i.e. could disclosure possible be
necessary for a pension or health insurance questionnaire...?

Mental health problems could be on the questionnaire , I don’t think
there should be any specific questions about ASD because of the wide
spectrum , you’re an Asperger right ?

From what I've seen of health forms in the past, and samples on the
web, it's just a set of general health questions. There are 'any
mental health conditions' type questions usually, but I don't really
consider it a mental health issue really. I think I can get away with
thinking that, because it's not generally considered to be mental
health.
But there may be an 'any underlying conditions' box or 'anything else'
which one could say is designed to trap anything the applicant has
tried to hide by claiming it doesn't fit the questions.
I think the 'any ongoing/underlying' type question could be 'no' on
the basis that I'm not receiving any sort of ongoing treatment for it
- I was diagnosed some years ago and haven't asked the dr to make use
of the dx in any way in the last 5+ years.
And I can still perhaps play the 'not a medical condition' card. But
perhaps the fact that I had to ask a dr to obtain the dx in the first
place means it is a medical issue in the eyes of an employer.
The other thing is do I declare stress/anxiety in the relevant box?
I've never been formally diagnosed with anxiety, but I did once ask a
dr about counselling for stress/anxiety when I was a student, and
although it wasn't treated in a formal way, because the dr referred
me, the counsellor had to feed back to the dr, so it could be on my
record. And if I note that then they might do some digging, and it was
from that counsellign that I sought dx.

Post by Legal Alien
Give it some thought and at the end don`t voluntary give information
which could harm your application

The only place where the quesitons would come close to requiring the
information (having said no to the voluntary disability questions) is
the health form. This is not read as part of the application process -
it's only presented at the interview - but in theory occupational
health could say it is incompatible with the job. I doubt it, but it's
a small risk. And just them knowing it and being 'aware' of it when
making promotion or downsizing decisions in the future makes me a bit
wary.
This 'disclose or not' issue is more stressful than the idea of
interviews etc. I don't want to jeopardise a long term job opportunity
with a good employer on the basis of a simple decision in filling in a
form. But equally I want to be careful about what I say.
With previous jobs - agency or small companies - I've just had to say
I choose not to declare a disability (i.e. don't have a disabaility or
don't want special treatment) and have no ongoing medical issues (more
for record should they need to send me to hospital than for employment
records) so it's never come up before.
They might not even find out, of course. I suspect they would only
approach my dr if they felt they needed to check something. So as long
as there's nothing serious enough in my history for them to check, it
would never matter. Unless an issue arose in future that made me feel
it necessary to use autism to support my case. But if they do check
anything out, the dr might write a full report on everything. Then
again, they might not think it necessary to include autism.
That turned into a long message. Perhaps making mountains out of mole
hills.

You are overthinking this.

[Bob Badour]

Post by rapa lucida
On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 17:44:06 +0100, Legal Alien

Post by Legal Alien

Post by rapa lucida
So the question is...
is AS/ASD a 'health' problem as such, which should be declared on a
'health' form...?

Nope it isn’t a problem an don’t be to honest at the interview(er) either !
Hows life in Swansea ?

I don't plan to note it on an application form or in the interview.
I've always declined guaranteed interviews. Most decent jobs require
some aspect of working under pressure and customer service, which
could be seen as not fitting with autism, but I have found ways to
survive in jobs involving these (if not necessary in personal life!)
and would rather they discriminate on the basis of my work record than
on some perception of how a condition will affect me.
Application forms and interviews are one thing, and there is certainly
no need to disclose there, but a health form is another matter... as I
understand it they can't use them for the selection process, but they
can make it a condition of employment that correct and satisfactory
information be provided. Personally I don't consider AS a health
problem, but would an employer.....?
I suppose disclosure could help if in future a problem arises (e.g.
bullying or stress)... but I'm not entirely comfortable with it. (Does
it have any actuarial impact, i.e. could disclosure possible be
necessary for a pension or health insurance questionnaire...? I
shouldn't think so, unless it's seen in a factor for things like early
retirement due to stress...?)

Autism does not affect your health. It does not increase prevalence of
heart disease, or cancer, or any expensive illness. Unless you are
asking for specific accommodations, I suggest keeping it to yourself.

If you self-harm or anything like that, then I suggest mentioning the
fact that you do, and in that case, it might make sense to mention the
autism as a contributing factor. But otherwise, why invite
discrimination and ignorant prejudice?

[rapa lucida]

Post by Bob Badour

Post by rapa lucida
On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 17:44:06 +0100, Legal Alien

Post by rapa lucida
So the question is...
is AS/ASD a 'health' problem as such, which should be declared on a
'health' form...?

Nope it isn’t a problem an don’t be to honest at the interview(er) either !
Hows life in Swansea ?

I don't plan to note it on an application form or in the interview.
I've always declined guaranteed interviews. Most decent jobs require
some aspect of working under pressure and customer service, which
could be seen as not fitting with autism, but I have found ways to
survive in jobs involving these (if not necessary in personal life!)
and would rather they discriminate on the basis of my work record than
on some perception of how a condition will affect me.
Application forms and interviews are one thing, and there is certainly
no need to disclose there, but a health form is another matter... as I
understand it they can't use them for the selection process, but they
can make it a condition of employment that correct and satisfactory
information be provided. Personally I don't consider AS a health
problem, but would an employer.....?
I suppose disclosure could help if in future a problem arises (e.g.
bullying or stress)... but I'm not entirely comfortable with it. (Does
it have any actuarial impact, i.e. could disclosure possible be
necessary for a pension or health insurance questionnaire...? I
shouldn't think so, unless it's seen in a factor for things like early
retirement due to stress...?)

Autism does not affect your health. It does not increase prevalence of
heart disease, or cancer, or any expensive illness. Unless you are
asking for specific accommodations, I suggest keeping it to yourself.
If you self-harm or anything like that, then I suggest mentioning the
fact that you do, and in that case, it might make sense to mention the
autism as a contributing factor. But otherwise, why invite
discrimination and ignorant prejudice?

That's the line I want to take :)

The only medical history I have in which autism might be declared a
factor was the referral to a counsellor for stress/anxiety, and that
was hardly a formal diagnosis of anxiety.

As long as it doesn't lead to dismissal for omitting it in future,
which is the main concern here; would the above argument be sufficient
defence for not mentioning it if a doctor happened to drop it in?

It's not associated with any physical illness but could be a factor in
mental illness... but recent employment suggests it should have no
effect because I would only choose a job I feel I can manage.

It's bed time... ;-)

[Chak]

Post by rapa lucida
can make it a condition of employment that correct and satisfactory
information be provided. Personally I don't consider AS a health
problem, but would an employer.....?

Have you ever received a formal diagnosis?

Chak

[rapa lucida]

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 23:57:58 +0000 (UTC), Chak

Post by Chak

Post by rapa lucida
can make it a condition of employment that correct and satisfactory
information be provided. Personally I don't consider AS a health
problem, but would an employer.....?

Have you ever received a formal diagnosis?

Yes (borderline). I suppose the honest answer is borderline dx and
have never required employer to make adjustments (or even told an
employer before as I've never had to fill in a detailed occupational
health form).

[Chak]

Post by rapa lucida
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 23:57:58 +0000 (UTC), Chak

Post by Chak

Post by rapa lucida
can make it a condition of employment that correct and satisfactory
information be provided. Personally I don't consider AS a health
problem, but would an employer.....?

Have you ever received a formal diagnosis?

Yes (borderline). I suppose the honest answer is borderline dx and
have never required employer to make adjustments (or even told an
employer before as I've never had to fill in a detailed occupational
health form).

Sorry I took so long to answer, I've been away.

I don't think you have to divulge if you're not actually being treated,
and if you don't expect or want special treatment.

Chak

[Canth]

On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 16:22:26 +0000, rapa lucida

Post by rapa lucida
Long time no post and all that....!
i'm applying for a few jobs at the moment and some employers,
particularly in the public sector (best source of good jobs around
here if one can get in) require a health declaration form to be
completed at the interview stage.
I haven't needed to fill one in before, having mainly done short-term
work, usually with agencies. So I'm wondering how much detail needs to
go on it.
I've never declared myself as having a 'disabiility'; I don't really
feel a need to use this label in employment and don't really have
problems in employment (I just make sure I choose the right jobs). As
I understand it a disabled person has the right not to declare a
disability under DDA. However, a health form (for employment and
possibly pension purposes) is a bit different. So the question is...
is AS/ASD a 'health' problem as such, which should be declared on a
'health' form...?

I guess it depends on the legal requirements in your country with
respect to declaring pre-existing conditions. Then you must consider
the government attitude to disabilities, as well as the employers. In
Australia, you definitely do so, as the government cannot discriminate
for disabilities and in fact it can be an asset. Some big employers
operate on the same principles. This is a positive attitude towards
disabilities. I declared my Aspergers as soon as I was diagnosed.

In the US, I suspect it would depend on the insurer of record, but I
can see an insurer denying other conditions which may later develop if
they find out you concealed an unrelated pre-existing condition. Also,
it may affect the premium paid to the insurer, which can discourage
the employer. This is a negative attitude - you're dammed if you do,
and dammed if you don't.

Other countries you need to evaluate your self, but they will fall
somewhere between the two.

AS! ds++:+++ a++ c+++ p++ t+ f-- S+ p+ e++ h++ r++ n++ i+ P+ m++ M
I've been ignored by better people than you.

[rapa lucida]

Post by Canth
I guess it depends on the legal requirements in your country with
respect to declaring pre-existing conditions. Then you must consider
the government attitude to disabilities, as well as the employers. In
Australia, you definitely do so, as the government cannot discriminate
for disabilities and in fact it can be an asset. Some big employers
operate on the same principles. This is a positive attitude towards
disabilities. I declared my Aspergers as soon as I was diagnosed.

EMployers aren't supposed to discriminate on the basis of disability,
but then in many ways there's no way to prove it. If there are many
people applying, they need some way to choose, consciously or
otherwise. (I would prefer they discriminate on the basis of ability
to do the job, but it's a well known fact that they usually
discriminate on first impression as well...)

Employers who are positive towards disability (I'm too tired to
remember the actual term) offer a guaranteed interview to anyone who
is disabled and meets the criteria. But at that stage it's optional -
more of a request to be considered on that basis than necessity to
disclose anything. Similarly, they would have to offer reasonable
means of accommodating the disability.

Of course, a disability mgiht naturally prevent someone having a job
simply because it naturally prevents them meeting requirements.. e.g.
someone with severe physical impairment couldn't become an athlete (in
its conventional form), and a deaf person would find it hard to work
in a call centre, etc. But I digress.

The health form is more of an issue because they can make it a
condition of employment for it to be satisfactory. I.e. they don't
feel I would be a burden in terms of sick pay etc within x years or
simply me burning out in the job. I think the laws are tighter than
they were on this, but the health form is basically for this purpose.

I'm rambling now, so I'll stop :)

[d***@fsmail.net]

Post by rapa lucida
Long time no post and all that....!
i'm applying for a few jobs at the moment and some employers,
particularly in the public sector (best source of good jobs around
here if one can get in) require a health declaration form to be
completed at the interview stage.
I haven't needed to fill one in before, having mainly done short-term
work, usually with agencies. So I'm wondering how much detail needs to
go on it.
I've never declared myself as having a 'disabiility'; I don't really
feel a need to use this label in employment and don't really have
problems in employment (I just make sure I choose the right jobs). As
I understand it a disabled person has the right not to declare a
disability under DDA. However, a health form (for employment and
possibly pension purposes) is a bit different. So the question is...
is AS/ASD a 'health' problem as such, which should be declared on a
'health' form...?

Are you diagnosed or self-diagnosed? If the latter then I think it's clear not to declare it if you don't want to. If it becomes important then you can always re-self-diagnose / get diagnosed later.

If you are diagnosed then I think you might or might not want to declare it depending on the job. However, if you do declare it then I would not just state the condition, but mention pros and cons. For example:

"I am diagnosed with having Asperger's Syndrome. For employment purposes this gives me a number of advantages including attention to detail, strong analytical skills and willingness to follow procedures and routines. However, it also means that I have slightly more difficulty with social interactions (though I do try!), and also find it difficult to work in conditions where [...]. I would be happy to discuss this further."

Dolphinius
(Male, age 40 +/- a few months, UK, self-diagnosed AS)

[rapa lucida]

Post by d***@fsmail.net

Post by rapa lucida
I've never declared myself as having a 'disabiility'; I don't really
feel a need to use this label in employment and don't really have
problems in employment (I just make sure I choose the right jobs). As
I understand it a disabled person has the right not to declare a
disability under DDA. However, a health form (for employment and
possibly pension purposes) is a bit different. So the question is...
is AS/ASD a 'health' problem as such, which should be declared on a
'health' form...?

Are you diagnosed or self-diagnosed? If the latter then I think it's clear not to declare it if you don't want to. If it becomes important then you can always re-self-diagnose / get diagnosed later.
"I am diagnosed with having Asperger's Syndrome. For employment purposes this gives me a number of advantages including attention to detail, strong analytical skills and willingness to follow procedures and routines. However, it also means that I have slightly more difficulty with social interactions (though I do try!), and also find it difficult to work in conditions where [...]. I would be happy to discuss this further."

Borderline dx.

If I do put it down, I would only put it on health forms, not anything
used in the application process (I don't cite it as a disability to
justify guaranteed interview) and would highlight the 'borderline' and
that it's never required an employer to make adjustments in the past.

Main reason for putting it down would be trying not to be sacked later
on for hiding anything should they ask for a dr's report and the dr
happen to note it is in my records. If I secure a job of the type that
needs a health form (i.e. council etc) it would be a job I want to
keep!

If the occupational health people felt compelled to tell my line
manager I would expect to benefit if I'm to accept the cost of someone
who works with me knowing!

[Buzzard]

Post by rapa lucida
Long time no post and all that....!
i'm applying for a few jobs at the moment and some employers,
particularly in the public sector (best source of good jobs around
here if one can get in) require a health declaration form to be
completed at the interview stage.

I don't think I would tell such a thing. Not in the
area I live in. Managers at hiring would find some
other excuse not to hire, or just not say why not.

And if they did hire, they'd likely deny the existence
of such a condition, and demand perfectly NT behavior
anyway.